INFOCOM On Line: Transcript edited by Mat*Rat - ANALOG Computing › ›Brian Moriarity, author of WISHBRINGER and TRINITY spent several ›hours on line with us to talk about Infocom Games.  We learned a ›bit about how they're written, and got a few hints about what ›we can expect from them in the future. › ›Conference Visitors: › ›Mat*Rat  Brian Moriarity  Mike Schoenbach   Charles F. Johnson ›Charles Bachand   GRUMMAGE  FROGLIPS REPTILIA  ICDINC (Tom Harker) ›ANDREESSEN  JOEPIERCE  ISHELLYOU56 TOMMCCOMB  POCONO  BEEJAY › › › ›.<Mat> We're a little early. Things will warm up in a bit. ›.Mike Schoenbach> Hi guys. ›.Brian Moriarty> Hi. ›.<Mat> (Get that, ME EARLY. There's the first of the century!) ›> Hi Mike. ›> What do you have under construction to follow up Trinity Brian? ›> Can you give us any hints at all? ›.Brian Moriarty> I'd love to tell you. Unfortunately, we have this policy ... ›> of not disclosing products until they're less than ... ›> 90 days before ship date. Avoids vaporware. ›.<Mat> I have to wait for the CES Infocom party next month? ›.Mike Schoenbach> What's a couple of trade secrets between friends? <grin> ›.<Mat> This is a "public conference", that's different. :-} ›.Brian Moriarty> Yeah, I guess they'll be talking about it at CES. We have .. ›> a whole flock of new things coming out. ›.<Mat> Hi Charles! Man does Megamax have ME down! ›CFJ> Hi folks! ›.<Mat> Brian, some of the software from Infocom runs on the..... ›> C128, with the enhanced interpreter....... ›> but WHY NOT the 130XE? ›.Brian Moriarty> The "official" Atari mag mentioned Delphi this issue. ›CFJ> Hi Charlie! ›.Brian Moriarty> Charles! Nice to see you again! Did you bring lunch? <grin> ›.Charlie> Has the party started yet? ›.<Mat> Warming up. ›.Brian Moriarty> Mat, maybe I should delay answering your question ... ›> until everybody is here to listen. ›.Charlie> I hope that I don't fall asleep - we had a 3 hour CO ›> on CI$ this afternoon. ›.<Mat> It will come up again later. Let's be casual for a while? ›.Brian Moriarty> About what? (And was the "$" intentional/) ›.Mike Schoenbach> Ah, Charlie, don't start with the CI$ stuff when I'm here ›> What about the $ource? ›.Charlie> Just wanted to see if you were listening - CIS - I stand corrected. ›.Charles Johnson> It's easy to fall into the habit of using that $ sign. <hehe> ›.Brian Moriarty> Charlie, I hear Pat is "no longer with you." ›.Charlie> Correct, he's now a job councelor. ›.<Mat> Good ole' Patrick McKelley, the cute little irishman? ›> Did he help you hire a replacement then, hee hee? ›.Charlie> He needed a change. ›.Brian Moriarty> A job counselor? How on earth ... oh, never mind. ›.Charlie> CI$ CI$ CIS -- I love it! ›.Brian Moriarty> "Cute?" ›.<Mat> cute indeed! ›.Grummage> Hello, just thought I would pop in for a sec. ›.Charlie> Put your feet up and sit a spell. ›.Grummage> Sorry got prior commitments. ›.Charles Johnson> How's Trinity doing, Brian? Sell well? ›> I loved the game, by the way. ›.Brian Moriarty> Yes, it has sold tolerably well. Better than we'd hoped. ›.<Mat> How do you solve wishbringer in 10 moves or less? ›.Brian Moriarty> Mat: I don't think you can. ›FROGLIPS> hi just listing for now ›.Charlie> And these are official Sysops? ›.<Mat> What's the MINIMUM moves to solve Wishbringer? Did you ever... ›> calculate that? ›.Brian Moriarty> One of our testers did, but I forgot what the result was. ›.<Mat> How's Leather Goddesses selling? ›.Brian Moriarty> That title did/is doing fairly well. Not a blockbuster. ›> But well. ›.<Mat> Get much "hate" mail from parents about selling "R" rated code? ›.Brian Moriarty> Are you kidding? Oh, we get lots of mail complaining about ... ›> LGoP. They complain that it isn't dirty enough! ›FROGLIPS> Brian...ever though about  a multi-level difficulty approach? ›.Brian Moriarty> Well, WISHBRINGER sort of had that, since you could ... ›> solve most puzzles either with (easy) or without Magick. ›FROGLIPS> yea...that was a good approach... ›> but extend it like leather goddess so that it would be ›> applicable to different levels of players...eh? ›.Brian Moriarty> It's possible. But it takes a lot of code to handle ... ›> all the possibilities. ›.Charlie> Someone said that there was a connection between Wishbringer ›> and Trinity -- the Glow in the Dark stone is radioactive <hehe> ›.<Mat> Do the INVISICLUES sell well? Do they approach a significant.. ›> percentage of the program copies that sell? ›.Brian Moriarty> InvisiClues do okay. But we don't make a whole lot of ... ›> money on them. ›> We're starting a new Double InvisiClues system, with one book ... ›> for both HOLLYWOOD HIJINX and BUREAUCRACY. ›.Charles Johnson> When you work on a game for Infocom, is there much.... ›> actual programming involved? Or is it mainly just re-working.... ›> the already-existing shell? ›.Brian Moriarty> No, CJ. Only 5 to 10% of a game's total code comes from ... ›> the "generic" shell. The rest is all work. ›.<Mat> Will Infocom take advatage of superior graphics on the ST, Amiga ›> and Mac II with graphic/text adventures? ›.Brian Moriarty> Yes. My next product will look substantially different on ... ›> the ST/Amiga/Mac-class machines. But NO, we are NOT currently ... ›> doing "graphic adventures" in the usual sense of the phrase. ›.<Mat> Does anyone have any other tough gaming questions for Brian? ›.Brian Moriarty> Do you want to ask your C128 question again, Mat? ›.<Mat> Ok, why are there versions of INFOCOM Games which provide.... ›> a more powerful parser, for the C128, using it's extra RAM... ›> but not for the 130XE? ›.Brian Moriarty> Simple. Our "Interactive Fiction PLUS" games ›> (which include Trinity, ... ›> A Mind Forever Voyaging, and now Bureaucracy) require a host system ... ›> with 1) at least 128K of RAM (512K on the Mac), 2) an 80-column text ... ›> display, and 3) a disk drive capable of holding about 275K. ›> The C128 is just barely powerful enough. ›.<Mat> Oh, the primary limiting factors or lack of 80 column...... ›> display and disk storage of greater than 130K "enhanced .... ›> density" that Atari uses on their 1050s (even though.... ›> they are true double density mechanisms). ›> Maybe if the 3.5", 360K floppies and the XEP80 become realities.. ›> that woud change? ›.Brian Moriarty> Right. But we wouldn't use the 1050 "E-dense" mode anyway, ... ›> since there aren't enough users with 1050s out there ... ›> and even fewer with 130XEs. ›.<Mat> 1050's can't go over 130K without a hardware modification..... ›> like the one put out by ICD. ›.Brian Moriarty> The XEP80 is a reality, according to Atari. The ›> 3.5" drives are ... ›> still vaporhardware. But even if both existed, they'd have to be ... ›> out there in the tens of thousands before it would make sense ... ›> for us to support them. ›ANALOG2> We just got in a real XEP80 in the office on Thursday. ›.<Mat> The XEP is actually shipping to dealers somewhere? ›> Oh, you need me to review it? ›.Charlie> Oops! That's better. ›> They sent the unit and a disk but NO docs! ›.Brian Moriarty> Charlie, I think the docs are ON THE DISK! ›.<Mat> So it's likely the 8bit will die of old age before....... ›> INTERACTIVE FICTION PLUS hits the machine? ›> (Atari 8bits I mean.) ›.Brian Moriarty> Unfortunately, that is probably true. But with ›> the 520ST coming down ... ›> to prices as low as $200 (or less!), does it really matter? ›.<Mat> Atari, since the 800XL, has always made "disposable" computers. ›> A friend recently tried to sell a $1200 system for $200 and... ›> couldn't get it....... ›> that was $1200 new, for an 800/810/cassette etc. ›.Brian Moriarty> I paid $2000 for myu original 48K Atari 800 system. Today ... ›> I could get a much enhanced 130XE system for $300. ›.<Mat> Atari is a little TOO HIGH TECH in that they obsolete our.... ›> machines before we could depreciate them, in a business..... ›> application, for example. ›.Charles Johnson> My 800 system is getting _very_ little use these days. ›> Especially since it's in a closet! ›.<Mat> Yes. I've heard stories about 8bit Ataris and CORVUS as ...... ›> GREAT development systems........ ›> but NOT EVEN the best of the best on the ST can touch..... ›> the 130XE or 800XL, MIO board, and Mac/65. ›> Even the main frames at work don't compile as fast. ›.Brian Moriarty> STAR RAIDERS is still one of the best, though. ›> What's an MIO board? ›.Charlie> He doesn't know? ›.<Mat> 1 MEGABYTE DMA Ramdisk (parallel bus) for the 8bit Ataris. ›.Charles Johnson> (Except that you can do more powerful stuff on the ST!) <grin> ›.<Mat> 100K/second file transfer rates. ›> More RAM on my 8bit than on my ST! ›> And the MIO has room for a piggyback 80 column board...... ›> if they _ever_ get that done...... ›> and the MIO has printer and rs232 interfaces built in...... ›> and a SASI/SCSI interface for a controller and hard drive! ›.Brian Moriarty> One megabyte? Good heavens! ›> Mac/65. (Sigh.) What a wonderful tool. ›.Charles Johnson> Yeah...I'd kill for a MAC/68K. ›.<Mat> Ditto! ›.Brian Moriarty> No assembler on the C64 even comes CLOSE to Mac/65. ›> Take it from someone who looked for one. ›.<Mat> A lot of C64 software is developed on the Atari WITH Mac65, such ›> as all the 8bit computer eyes software! ›.Charles Johnson> Appealing username! Hi, Reptilia! ›REPTILIA> Hi, I'm new to Am I coming  thru/ ›.Brian Moriarty> Loud and clear. ›> Speak of the devil. ›.<Mat> Hello TOM. Get a nice tan on vacation, or is this Keith? ›.Brian Moriarty> (What a weird question that was!) ›ICDINC> This is TOM, yes nice tan but in the poor house now ›.Charles Johnson> Hehe! ›.<Mat> Any questions for Mr. Wishbringer himself? ›.Brian Moriarty> (Choking.) ›.Brian Moriarty> Back to the Pleistocene. ›ICDINC> So how are sales in the Atari 8-bit market Brian? ›> 8-bit sales are slow, but surprsingly steady. ›> There's a core of a few thousand 8-bitters who ... ›> seem to like our stuff. ›ICDINC> Ours are doing well but I think we have more 8-bit products ›> than Atari now! ›.Brian Moriarty> How is Atari going to counter Mac II? ›.Charles Johnson> The Mac II is a _nice_ machine. A bit pricey. ›.Brian Moriarty> Only pricey when compared to "home" computers. Compared to ... ›> minis and mainframes (whose performance it more closely approaches), ... ›> it's the bargain of the century! ›.<Mat> They are sending out review copies of the XEP80 NOW Tom... ›> how's the MIO 80 Column coming? ›.Charlie> Brian, Does Infocom use or have they ever looked into any ›> type of text compression methods? ›.Brian Moriarty> We've been using text compression since Day One. ›.Charles Johnson> I know. <grin> I peeked with a disk editor once.... ›> hoping to find some clues! Oh well. ›.<Mat> Do you still use a proprietary language for everything...... ›> then just compile once for each target machine? ›.Brian Moriarty> Yes, we do use a proprietary language, ZIL (for Zork ... ›> Implementation Language). But no, we do not compile once ... ›> for each computer. We compile ONCE, for EVERY computer. The code ... ›> is 100% machine independent. Only the interpreters are changed ... ›> to protect the innocent. ›ICDINC> MAybe you could briefly describe ZIL for us? ›.<Mat> Ohhhhh. What Main Frame do you use? Vax, Data General, Cray XMP4? ›.Brian Moriarty> It looks like Lisp, with lots of parens and brackets, and ... ›> functions called with arguments and optionals, etc, etc. ›> Our mainframe is a DECsystem 20. ›.<Mat> Sounds like my Mac/65 source code - I have MACROitis. ›.Brian Moriarty> (Wish we had a Cray. But doesn't everybody?) ›.<Mat> Someone develops an interpreter for each machine then.... ›> in it's native tongue? ›.Charlie> Or do you use cross assemblers? ›.Brian Moriarty> Right. Each machine has a small (around 8K) interpreter, ›> written ... ›> in assembly (though lately in C). It never changes. ›.<Mat> Ahh, C would make it a bit more portable, eh. ›.Brian Moriarty> Each machine runs EXACTLY the same Z-code as every ›> other machine. ›.<Mat> So the entire game is more like a description language of sorts. ›.Brian Moriarty> Yes. It's a virtual stack machine, similar in flavor to ... ›> FORTH. ›.<Mat> I was going to suggest that word, but I can't say it.... ›> much less think in RPN. ›ICDINC> What are INFOCOMs views on copy protection for its programs? ›.Brian Moriarty> We no longer have CP on any of our products. ›> It doesn't work. ›.Charles Johnson> Did you ever use CP at Infocom? ›.Brian Moriarty> Not on Atari products. Our old Apple, IBM and Mac disks did. ›ICDINC> And has it affected sales?? ›.<Mat> Your copy protection is unique documentation upon which.... ›> the game depends for solvability? ›.Brian Moriarty> Never stopped anyone. Packaging works a lot better. ›> Right, Mat. We make the package so attractive, you don't WANT to ... ›> play the game without it. ›.<Mat> How many _NEW_ title announcements can we expect at CES? ›.Brian Moriarty> Defintely two major products, to ship immediately. ›> Possibly up to three others (including my next title). Maybe more. ›.Charles Johnson> Can you tell us anything about your next project, Brian? ›.<Mat> Going to have another big bash, like last years BYOB? ›> (Bring Your Own BRAIN) ›.Brian Moriarty> It's another big fantasy. That's all I can tell you till CES. ›> I'm not sure what our plans are. Much depends on Activision. ›.Charlie> Were there ever any 'trap doors' left in any of the games by accident? ›.Brian Moriarty> "Trap doors?" ›.<Mat> Easy solutions one might stumble onto accidentally..... ›> that were stuck in for convenience during development. ›.Charlie> Type a secret word and have all the rooms labeled, etc. ›> But someone somehow forgot about them? ›ICDINC> A hackers dream! ›.Brian Moriarty> Oh, you mean Secret Commands! (Chuckling.) No, we usually have to ... ›> semi them out just to make the games fit! ›> However, did you ever ASK THE BIRD WOMAN ABOUT TRINITY? ›.<Mat> Have you ever considered a multiplayer game? Two different...... ›> people playing two different roles at the same time? ›.Charlie> O.K., I'll bite . ›.Charles Johnson> No, never tried that one! ›.Charles Johnson> Wha' happens? ›.Brian Moriarty> Yes, she knows, in a way .... ›> There was once a multiplayer version ... ›> of ZORK on the mainframe. Someday, maybe we'll do something with it. ›.Charlie> He's going to leave us hanging! ›.Brian Moriarty> I can't describe what happens, Charlie. Just try it. ›.<Mat> How a BBS version? A BBS with simple email.... ›> but each caller is a different character....... ›> with a different path........ ›> the BBS can be run by just about anyone...... ›> but the caller must have an INFOCOM character disk..... ›> that handles custom communication with the BBS, etc. ›.Brian Moriarty> Got it all figured out, eh? <grinning> Probably ›> not enough of a ... ›> market out there yet. Someday, who knows? ›.<Mat> Make the BBS public domain. Sell the PLAYER disks...... ›> like crazy. Maybe have a dozen so different rolls one may..... ›> choose from at purchase time. ›ICDINC> So how much time do you guys spend playing games ›> on the mainframe? (vs working) ›> (hehe) ›.Brian Moriarty> Most of the games we play are on micros. The current favorites ... ›> are SHANGHAI on the Mac, and (get ready) SUPER BREAKOUT on the 800! ›ICDINC> Wow!! ›.<Mat> Have you tried RAMBUG II yet? Nice debugging utility for the 800. ›.Brian Moriarty> No. I always used OMNIMON. ›.<Mat> Try RAMBUG II sometime, it can grow on you. ›.Charles Johnson> I have to ask - who was responsible for that fiendish.... ›> "untangling/unangling cream" business in LGoP? That.... ›> one drove me nuts!!! ›.Brian Moriarty> The cream, like all of LGoP, was Steve Meretzky's. ›ICDINC> Brian, what machines are your biggest sellers? ›.<Mat> C64? ›.Brian Moriarty> IBM, Apple // and C64. Together, about 75% of our business. ›ICDINC> How do ST, AMIGA, 8-bit Atari compare? ›> Also MAC? ›.Brian Moriarty> Amiga is rather weak, perhaps because we have no ›> pix (those dolts). ›> Mac is getting stronger, because there are so many MACers now. ›> Atari ST and 8-bit sales are roughly the same. ›.<Mat> Aside from the games you've written personally, what INFOCOM..... ›> game do you play most, like best? ›ICDINC> So do you release on all machines at once? ›.Brian Moriarty> ICD: Yes. All versions come out on the same day. ›> Mat: My favorite is Enchanter. Zork II is also very good. ›> I should admit, though, that I haven't played several of them. ›.<Mat> Just out of curiosity...... ›> what computer/terminal program are you using now? ›.Brian Moriarty> Right now, I'm on a Compaq Plus running Crosstalk. ›ICDINC> So is being a sucessful author everything you dreamed back ›> in ANALOG days? ›.Brian Moriarty> It's a lot more work than I thought it'd be. ›.<Mat> And not enough groupies? ›ICDINC> And the fame and fortune??? ›.Brian Moriarty> Believe me, groupies are no picnic. ›ICDINC> (hehe) ›.Brian Moriarty> Fame? Ha! I've gone from Unknown to Obscure. ›> Fortune? Well, they pay better than ANALOG ... but doesn't everyone? ›ICDINC> Do all Infocom authors work at the main office or do some work at home? ›.Brian Moriarty> We basically all work at the office, though ›> there are signs of ... ›> that beginning to change. ›> We are thinking about porting our development system to ... ›> one of the new high-powered micros, possibly a Mac II. ›.<Mat> Yeah! I'd LOVE to get paid to work at home all the time! ›ICDINC> I personally have a hard time working at home. ›> To many distractions. ›.<Mat> I don't, at 3AM when all the kids are sleeping - do my best.... ›> work then. ›.Brian Moriarty> It's all a question of discipline. ›> I think I'd get more work done at home, given the chance. ›ICDINC> How many authors presently write for Infocom? ›.Brian Moriarty> I wrote Crash Dive! at home. Remember, Charlie? Mike was very ... ›> suspicious. ›.Brian Moriarty> We have seven full-time authors now. ›ICDINC> Does Activision handle marketing and sales then or is that Infocom? ›.Brian Moriarty> We do packaging and marketing. AVision does most of sales. ›.<Mat> Where do you come up with the bizzarre ideas for these programs.. ›> .. and how do you develop ideas? Flowcharting? (Ackus) ›.Brian Moriarty> Every author has his/her own method of developing a story. ›> We don't brainstorm as much as you might think. ›ANDREESSEN> Is the Tandy CoCo going to be supported by Infocom anymore? ›.Brian Moriarty> We still support the Coco. ›> I know MOONMIST was released for Coco. ›ICDINC> How did you become affiliated with Infocom? ›ANDREESSEN> Are new games (Bureaucracy, Leather Goddess - Phobos, etc) ›> gonna have CoCo versions? ›.Brian Moriarty> I came to Infocom from ANALOG, as you may know. ›> I think there's a CoCo LGoP. B'Cracy is too big, won't fit. ›ICDINC> They just called ANALOG and asked if anyone was interested ›> in being famous?? ›ANDREESSEN> I dunno if anyone already asked this, but what kind of ›> new games are coming from Infocom? ›.Brian Moriarty> No. Charlie used to give me printouts of the Atari mail on CIS. ... ›> One day, there was this note from Dan Horn, who was head of their micro engineering dept. ›> He was looking for an 8-bit hacker. Desperately. So I wrote him a note. ›> You see, I'd just applied for a position as a game designer. Personnel ›> turned me down. (Snicker.) ›> So I snuck in through the Micro Group. ›.Charlie> And Mike took away my CIS account afterwards. ›.<Mat> "Desperately seeking hacker. Must like bits more than bytes." ›.Brian Moriarty> I think Mike was not happy. ›ICDINC> Does Infocom also do games? (Graphics etc.)  Sorry for my ignorance. ›.Brian Moriarty> We did a graphics oriented game called Fooblitzky once. ›.<Mat> I heard about it. How did it do? ›.Brian Moriarty> We never pushed it very hard. We sold all the ›> copies we printed, but we didn't print very many. ›> Steve Panak made it sound like the Second Coming. ›.Charles Johnson> I have a copy, and I really enjoyed it. A departure ›> for Infocom. ›.<Mat> You didn't think it lived up to the INFOCOM image? Or you...... ›> just didn't think it'd sell well? ›.Brian Moriarty> Some people felt one. Some felt the other. Some thought both. ›> It cost us a lot of $. ›ICDINC> Sounds like one of those TS upper mgmt decisions. ›.<Mat> How were the reviews for it in other magazines? ›.Charlie> What other magazines? ›.Brian Moriarty> Most of them were vague. Antic was distinctly unimpressed. ›.<Mat> The ones for non-Atari computers. You  know, Games'R'Us....etc. ›.Brian Moriarty> A+ (the Apple mag) kind of liked it. Most of the reviews ... ›> just described the play of the game, and raved about the package. ›.<Mat> There isn't a whole lot more you can write in a game review. ›.Brian Moriarty> Oh, Antic occasionally gets rather opinionated. ›> Ever see their review ... ›> of Tom Hudson's Buried Bucks? ›.Joe> Well, changing the subject, and probably re-asking this question... ›> Is CORNERSTONE still a "live" product? ›.Brian Moriarty> We still sell copies of the IBM version. There is, by the way, ... ›> a very nice version for the ST floating around. ›> It was shown at Winter CES at the Atari booth. ›.Joe> I always thought that it was better than it was given credit ›> but then again, 90% of the reviews you get are directly related ›> to amount of advertising bought in the PC market ›.Brian Moriarty> This is true. Marketing is impossibly expensive in ›> the PC market. ›.<Mat> Send a FREE copy to Jerry Pournelle! There's some free...... ›> advertising .... if it's good. ›.Joe> hahaha ›.Charles Johnson> I must have missed something. What's Cornerstone? ›.Joe> "I'm writing this in the early 18th century, due to Byte's ›> excessive lead time, your reading it now" ›.Brian Moriarty> Very valuable advertising, too. People are clamoring for just ... ›> a wee mention in Chaos Manor. It's read by more people than ... ›> any other column in ANY computer magazine. ›.<Mat> You sure? I know i've got at least 5 or 6 people reading.... ›> my Database delphi column now! ›> And growing more every day! ›.Brian Moriarty> Cornerstone, Charles, is Infocom's IBM PC database system. ›> Only $99.95 at fine dealers everywhere! ›.Charles Johnson> Ah! Now I recall reading about it. Is the ST version.... ›> going to be sold too? ›.Brian Moriarty> It does exist. Whether or not we sell it depends on ... ›> how we perceive the ST market. Right now, there doesn't seem to be ... ›> enough potential to make it worth our while. ›.Charles Johnson> That's a shame. I still haven't found a decent DB for my ST. ›.Brian Moriarty> It beats the living s--- out of every other ST database, › though! ›.Joe> Shhhhhh Frank Cohen might hear ›.Brian Moriarty> Who? ›ICDINC>  Thanks for the interesting info Brian,, (pun intended) gotta go. ›.<Mat> Brian, have you ever used Zoooooooooom RACKS? ›.Charles Johnson> Author of RegentBase. ›.Joe> I tried to convey humor - it didn't work ›.jh> (hmmm...should I get a ST or IBM?) ›.Charles Johnson> I laughed, Joe.    :-) ›.Brian Moriarty> Whos is RegentBase author? No, haven't seen ZoomRacks. ›.<Mat> Cray, get a cray! ›.Charles Johnson> Frank Cohen is one of the authors of Regent Base, Brian..... ›.Joe> jh - buy a Personal System/2 and be unique ›> unique in the fact that you will be the only person outside of ›> a fortune 500 company to have one ›.Charles Johnson> a program that's supposed to be functionally equivalent to... ›> RBASE 5000.  ("Supposed".) ›.Brian Moriarty> ST Cornerstone screams, especially on a 1040. ›.Charles Johnson> I want it! ›> I'll pay! ›.Brian Moriarty> But wait! There's more! ... Now how much would you pay? ›> (Personal System/2. Blah.) ›.Joe> Blah blah ›> We still need a way to indicate sarchasm in ascii ›.Charlie> Brian is into DEC Rainbows. ›.Brian Moriarty> I wrote WISHBRINGER on a DEC Rainbow, in terminal ›> mode. Love the keyboard. ›> Now use a VT220, which has the same keyboard. ›.<Mat> VT220 do graphics? How about the VT200, graphics terminal too? ›.Joe> I'd still like to have a DEC Rainbow just for the keyboard ›.Brian Moriarty> No pix on VT220. Well ... not exactly (being mysterious). ›> No better keyboard, in my opinion. Most here use VT131s. Ugh. ›.Joe> I wonder if the VaxMate 286 machine has a Rainbow › keyboard (now getting way off the subject) ›.Brian Moriarty> Yes, most of the DEC mini/micros have a VT220-style board. ›.jh> Bye...and thanks for all the fish. ›.Brian Moriarty> (We wish!) ›.Charlie> So long. ›.Joe> Quick, someone loan me $10K so I can buy a VaxMate then ›.Brian Moriarty> Just get a VT220! About $1.5K. ›.Joe> No wonder everyone is buying ST's to use as Vt220's ›> $1500 for a terminal is way outta line - even with god's gift to keyboards ›.Brian Moriarty> My opinion of the ST keyboard is better left unsaid here. ›> They got the layout right, at least. ›.Charles Johnson> I think you just said it all, Brian. ›.Joe> type type/ mush mush ›.Chris> Geez, been on since last august and this is the first conference ›> i've been on ›.Brian Moriarty> It's like squeezing an old banana. ›.Chris> to put it mildly ›.Charles Johnson> Everybody together - "I Hate the ST's Keyboard!" ›.Joe> Never quote me on this, but it's still better than the ›> Tandy 1000 keyboard I use all damn week ›.Brian Moriarty> I understand the Megas are better. True? ›.Chris> I like the ST keyboard, the keys are so bouncy! ›> mega's are detached, bri ›.Brian Moriarty> I want a computer, not a trampoline. ›.Charles Johnson> Well, it's looking like maybe not! They couldn't get the low.... ›> price from the OEM on the improved keyboards. ›.Chris> if anyone saw the new amiga 2000, their keyboard layout is ›> next to the same as the ST's, even the letter print on each ›> keypad is similar ›.Brian Moriarty> (Joe: You're right about the 1000. Yech.) ›> The A2000 keyboard is quite nice. ›.Brian Moriarty> Too bad they crippled it with ridiculous IBM compatibility. ›.Joe> The A2000 might be interesting if there was something to › do with it other than look at "neat graphics demos" ›.Brian Moriarty> The A2000 will be the box developers use to write ›> games for the A500. ›> Yes, Amigas have HARDWARE support for multitasking. ›.Joe> THe A500 won't sell unless they match the ST's price. ›> The buying public looks at price beyond all else ›.Brian Moriarty> They just might, Joe. The A500 is really cheap toproduce. ›.Joe> Well, if they do, I'll buy one and "run neat graphics demos on it" ›.Brian Moriarty> Chris, is it 68020? ›> With math co-pro? ›.Charles Johnson> Do the new Amigas have hardware memory protection?  .... ›> that's vital for a true multi-tasking OS. ›.Chris> i believe so ›.Brian Moriarty> No, the A500 has Kickstart in ROM, with 512K of real RAM. ›.Joe> the new amiga's are nothing new above the a1000 except for ›> the fact that the OS is ROMMED ›> Amiga Rev 1.1 you might say ›.Chris> and i think they have 1 meg of memory, compute! is making a big ›> deal over it, they never put the ST on their cover ›.Brian Moriarty> The big change is Cost Of Goods. Dramatically lower. ›.Chris> i think they put the amiga on it twice already ›.Brian Moriarty> Who advertises more? ›.Joe> What do you expect, Compute! is basically a CBM magazine, ›> has been for some time ›.Brian Moriarty> The A2000 has 1 meg. A500 only 512, I think ... ›> If it takes hold, A500 will be the ultimate game machine. ›.Joe> The A500, according to AmigaWorld (I'll withhold comments ›> on that publication) has 512K and an external expansion edge connector ›.<Mat> We got multitasking, within the confines of an accessory! ›.Charles Johnson> Well....we got kind of a "pseudo/imitation multitasking"... ›> with accessories! ›.Joe> Speaking of ST multi-tasking, I wonder what ever happened ›> to OS9 LLevel II 68K for the ST?  Anyone hear anything? ›.Brian Moriarty> But who wants MT on a home computer? Really?] ›> Joe, OS-9 was pulled from distribution (poor sales). But ... ›.<Mat> I could pull down a window and work on a spread sheet...... ›> while i'm waiting on the SLOW ST compilers. ›> That's MT. ›.Joe> The only multi-tasking I need is the ability to transfer ›> files and play a game at the same time to keep from getting bored ›.Chris> right, joe ›.Brian Moriarty> Microware (the inventors) may resell it again later. ›.<Mat> I don't know about any MT software for the ST other..... ›> than what Steve Beckemeyer wrote, and that is NOT public domain! ›.Joe> Hmmm - I don't know all that much about OS9, but all of the ›> Coco hacks at work tell me how great it is all the time... blah blah ›.Brian Moriarty> Mat, stop using compilers. Use FORTH! ›.Joe> Stomp out FORTH in your lifetime ›.Charles Johnson> Hey, there's an idea. How about a desk accessory Infocom game? ›.Charles Johnson> FORTH hate I. ›.Joe> Modula/2's my game, insanity reigns ›.Brian Moriarty> (Sigh.) Go ahead. Type squiggly brackets to your ›> heart's content. ›> Modula is rather nice. But it's not interactive. ›.<Mat> FORTH hate really dup dup dup I emit emit emit emit emit etc.... ›.Charles Johnson> Real men code in assembly!   ;-) ›.Joe> "we got one of those FORTH weirdo's here, don't touch him, ›> you might catch something" ›.<Mat> REAL men code in Hexadecimal! ›.Charles Johnson> Octal!!! ›.<Mat> BINARY! ›.Joe> no, real men code in OCTAL a ›> EBCIDIC ›.Charlie> Flip switches! ›.Charles Johnson> Punch cards! ›.<Mat> OK, we got any more serious conferencing left in us? ›.Joe> probablty not Mat ›.<Mat> while ( TODAY != FRIDAY); /* WAIT */ ›>  PARTY(YOUR, BUNS, OFF); ›.Brian Moriarty> And you bought ... ? ›.<Mat> Then someone else will Go Ahead. ›.Charles Johnson> Have you played the new B'cracy game, Brian? How do _you_... ›> like it? ›.<Mat> Well, this conference is now 2 hours old. Brian is about.... ›> ready to go I think. Any final comments Brian? ›.Brian Moriarty> No, I have not played it enough to comment intelligently. ›> ... Except that I'm still waiting for someone to publish ... ›> a game as perfect as Atari 800 STAR RAIDERS. ›/s cfj,infocominc Don't encourage the little snip! ›.Charles Johnson> Yeah, the ST Star Raiders doesn't hold a candle! ›.<Mat> You don't like Star Raiders ST? ›.Joe> Meaning, you wan't Star Raiders on the ST in 16K of code or less ›.Charles Johnson> OK, Joe, talk to ya later! ›.Joe> -exit stage left ›.Joe> - signed off - ›.Brian Moriarty> Thanks, Chris. A pleasure being among Atarians. ›.Chris> huh? ›BEEJAY> Hello. ›.Charles Johnson> Hi, Beejay...we're just winding down here. ›.Brian Moriarty> Well , gotta go, everyone. So long! ›.Chris> okay dokay. goodnitey nite ›.Charles Johnson> Thanks for stopping in, Brian! ›.Brian Moriarty> Bye all, it's been fun etc. ›.Brian Moriarty> - signed off - ›